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Let me state from the outset that this is not broad-based Christian bashing. It *is* Pat Robertson bashing.


Christian Broadcasting Network Warns Against 'Demonic' Halloween Candy

Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/2 ... 38738.html


"The Danger of Celebrating Halloween" by Kimberly Daniels

nothing shocking &/or surprising to me.....;

I live in the bible belt and I've had bible thumpers tell me snakes need to be killed on sight b/c they thrive in the garden of evil(in so many words),the wine Jesus drank was from berries and non-alcholic(..wouldn't that be called berry juice then[?]), + modern jews are reluctant to accept Jesus b/c swastikas resemble the cross.

Love that considering that since it is read that he change water to wine and most of my brethern take it seriously, then they are saying that there was no miracle, just a strong kool-aid made from the left overs in the kegs. LOL Talk about shooting yourself in the foot

However, back to being serious. I suppose they forgot this is the celebration of "all Saints day" ..... somewhat. If anything its the celebration of making fun of the evil of the world.

I suppose next they will be saying that we shouldn'tt be haveing Christmas because it orginally was for the god Saturn. Lighten up folk (my folk that is)

I rather doubt that, however as far as the shape, your correct. The swastika is a style of cross. But something of interest the Jewish faith also use the same symbol 2000 years ago and can be found on ancient temples, so I'd say that probably isn't that strong a reason.

Its more that to accept Christ they must agree that he was the Messiah, which I believe they are still waiting for, the new convent is the main problem, they still consider the orginal one with God as still binding. However they do see him as a teacher much as the Islamic view of Christ.

Why can't we take all the people whose brains only function on the right (the artistic, random associating irrational side) and exile them to Australia? Seriously, they frighten me. And its difficult to resist the urge to just shoot them.

What you got against Australia

Nothing. All non-criminal or right-brained only Aussies shall be given honorary Canadian, British, U.S. or N.Z. citizenship. Or we could heard the right-brainers into the Outback.

Antarctica would be nice too, but that would be the same as shooting them.

Yeah probably, but then again a few might go willingly considering some might think theres a hole down there that goes to the iner earth thing.

Actually, it is a pagan holiday. The Celts believed that on Halloween, the border to the spirit world was at its thinnest and thus sprits and demons could pass through. People dressed as spirits and demons to protect themselves, believing they would be left alone and seen as just another demon. I think they may have also sought to scare other demons away.

All Saints Day was started later, probably as an attempt to subvert and take over the pagan holiday. Christianity needs an 11th commandmant: thou shalt leave others be and refrain from subversion and the displacement of others of other faiths.

Still don't know what on earth "broad-based Christian bashing" means.


This is what Jesus had to say for such ppl.
"Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with the same measure you use, it will be measured back to you. And why do you behold the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me remove the speck out of your eye;' and look, a plank is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the speck out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the plank out of your brother's eye" (Mathew 7:1-5)

And continued in 7:15-16
Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits........

It's very simple, x, but just in case it is not self-explanatory to everyone, I was trying to be careful to not to have the original post misconstrued. It's not a "look at me, I'm an obnoxious atheist saying Christianity sucks." And that is because of people like tnstaafl and Ziggy Stardust, as well as reasonable Christians I know offline. So, while this thread is poking fun at the CBN blog, I'm acknowledging that the authors of that blog in no way represent Christian belief.

Reading from Kimberly's original blog-post which has been deleted for reasons we all know (though you can view a copy here), it appears the lady has some problems with vocabulary.


Her opinions in no way represent the Christian faith but a few opportunists are going to find something to keep their always Christian bashing mouths open.

LOL yes, but then again so are a lot of the ones we celebrate, at one time, such as Christmas (Saturn), when everyone knows it was April 15 (at least thats the day we get taxed, and who the hell take sheep out in the winter, yes it gets that cold out there at night)

Just came back from a drive on our little trip and was met at a turn off of the main highway with signs saying not to let our children be given over to the demons of the night (their words not mine) and stop celebrating the holiday. also signs like

Christmas = Christ
Easter = Christ
Halloween = Satan

Frankly I amazed they didn't put Passover at Easter, but what the heck. At least I know some kids not getting any candy tomorrow night.

Actually that would be the 12th.
The 11th issaid to be:
"If ye love me, you will keep my commandments." "This is my commandment, that ye love one another even as I have loved you."

Another good idea ignored.

I am not sure of the point of your statement. This woman, and Pat Robertson too, are being bashed here for being nuts. Nuts using and abusing Christianity to say nutty things does not reflect upon Christianity. It only reflects upon the nuts.

Of course it is possible that some nuts on the far opposite side of them may seek to use this to bash Christianity, but all we can do is keep talking and expose the nuts. (Not your nuts. The nuts! )

Yes, and that is why I suggested the new commandment. But yes, that may also get ignored.

I learned a long time ago that my problem was not with Christianity, but with Christians who wear Christianity like a sheep skin but are underneath pure wolf. Or plain nuts.

I agree, but how many will seperate the speaker and the faith. The loudest and the nutest will always draw the most attention and be looked at as the ones in charge, and unfortunately are the ones that are looked at by the ones of a faith that follow rather then think.

Could it be.....Satan?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcjZtsFU ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ncu02ODfxHE

You would think that the Devil would be smarter then to announce his intentions by haveing a holliday. You would think he/she/it would put on a smiling face and get people to follow thinking they are doing good by their faith.........Wait a minute!!!!

Let's play spot the Christian holy days that correspond to pre-existing Pagan holy days.
Yes folks, it's that wonderful game of supplantation!
Whomever plays has a chance to become a free thinker!

LOL pick one, odds are that it does. Thats what comes from taking over an empire of multiple religions for hundreds of years and not wanting folk to get to upset by the changes.

Well, there's no doubt Pat Robertson is a bit controversial, even among many Christians. There is some things to consider though. He (and the 700 Club) are only addressing Christians. And it's up to us to decide on the issue. We could also pose the question; does Satan exist? If one is convinced that he doesn't, then it really doesn't matter for that person. Halloween parties are thrown all over the place, and no one is telling them not to go.

If Satan does exist, or even if one is not really sure, it gets a bit tricky. There's a big difference between dressing in a costume, going to a party, and feeling that one is laughing at the demonic world in the face because nothing out of the ordinary happens; and going to a very real exorcism, or voodoo ritual. Huge difference. I never met any skeptic who was willing to step out of the comfort zone.

The point is, who's to say what Satan does and doesn't do?

i'm surprised no one has thrown in the sugar/candy/satan/fat people connection yet

But the rest of us are talking not to decide if its true, but so that we can know who the crazies are and what they are up to. If we don't keep tabs on the crazies they could cause damage...



Not in so many words. But this Robertson loon does have influence...because some people are crazy.



That it does, and that is where people with fewer logic functions start to lose the plot.




But only slightly less out of my comfort zone than attending a sermon by a person such as Robertson. The reason I say slightly is because I don't think anyone ever accussed the Robertson-like loon type of Christians of human sacrifice. You see, its not the superstition that bothers me with exorcism or voodoo, its being around crazy people doing crazy things. But the voodoo worries me especially because I wonder if I would survive the experience.



Well you obviously are not Catholic, I credit you that.

Is that right? I believe you because, well, it's you. But, I've never heard that before. I know that it comes from India and is very ancient.

Not just India, most anciet cultures had it, example:
There were American fliers in WW1 that joined the French and British airforce. Some would paint the symbol of American Indian on the side of the plane. So ww2 was not the first time that it flew over Europe.




I think I can safely say its probably one of the most widely used symbol around. Just got a bad rap 60 years ago, and in so doing is reluctant to be used by people that have nothing to be ashamed of, because eveytime its seen, some character will paint the ones that do use it as the more infamous group that used it in the 30's and up.

I won't get into the Pat Robertson controversy here, but the issue spoken of about Halloween is nothing new. You made a comment earlier I believe, that you're finding out that Christianity is not so much the problem, as is wolves in sheep's clothing (or something to that effect). That's a valid point, and I'm guessing from time to time you encounter Christians who you would not consider crazy. Well chances are, you're probably going to run into sane Christians who feel the same way about Halloween as PR does. Or maybe you already have, and they were not vocal about it. Some Christians' viewpoint may also vary in it's extremities. Some may not necessarily believe that any spiritual, or substantial spiritual harm may come to anyone who celebrates the holiday; but have a conviction that it's not honoring to the God they do honor (Jesus Christ). One thing you don't want to do, if I may suggest, is not suppose that sane Christians fall into any particular dogmatic grouping (liberal Christians, progressive Christians, etc.).


I'm not sure what you mean here.


Just to clarify, I'm not really referring to people (as in crazy people). I'm referring to the supernatural.. To not confuse the issue with the idea of crazy people doing human sacrifices, I'll use a different example. And this would keep in line with the thread's Halloween affair. Do you ever notice that when someone boldly claims that they want to sleep in a haunted house, it's generally a touristy thing like a haunted hotel? Or, they go in to more authentic haunted houses with a full camera crew (never alone)? Not everyone who does this are skeptics, and I don't blame them for not going alone.

Why doesn't someone like Stephen Hawking stay one night in 50 Berkeley Square in London? Just one night. Not just in the house, but in the particular room with the evil entity (not a ghost, but evil entity)? Maybe this would resolve the logic versus spiritual realm issue. No danger of crazy people. Should not be a problem. Yet all the bravados glory in staying in supposed haunted hotels so they can flex their muscles lifting their vacation post cards.

Having reservations about Halloween does not mean they feel the same way. But even that is not the point. The point is they don't think the same way, and if they did, they would be crazy too.



Exactly and that is a huge difference.



No need to tell me. My post already showed that I do.



What I mean is that those who accept the existence of Satan and also have functioning right brains realize its not as simple as a firey dude with horns and goat hooves prancing around stealing souls. Satan is not a "who". Its a "what", if it exists.



I cannot say I ever met anyone boldly say they wanted to sleep in a haunted house, no.

You seem to be indicating that those who don't believe in God or other deities must necessarily not believe in spirits, entities or forces beyond what science has clearly identified. And that would be false. In my case, I am simply undecided. I have no proof either way. Since most people are pressed for a yes or no, and most people give in under such pressure, they give a false answer. I see the trap clearly and will not be pressed. I am undecided and so are many were asked for an opinion on such things and pressed for a simple yes or no.



I don't know. Why don't you write him and find out?



I am not sure there is one. Logic says it cannot be proven or disproven. Some vocal anti-spiritual realm people might make claims to logic proving there isn't one. They would be wrong. But then again, many of the religious people with non-functioning or semi-functional right brains often take declarations of there being "no proof" as being disbelief and total refutation. It isn't. There is no scientificly demonstratable proof that a spirit world exists. But there is also none it doesn't. The matter is entirely in the realm of belief at this time, and some of us can see that and they don't know what to believe. However, it can be said that believing under those circumstances is illogical. But who cares? You can't prove either way then go ahead and enjoy the illogic if you want to! Getting upset about it would also be illogical!



Are you kidding me? Some of these things are complete hoaxes orchestrated by people, some of whom are crazy. I don't know two bits about the place you mentioned, but if its people behind it, it could be dangerous to cross them.

[/quote]

Never met such a person. Sounds like the people who drink cheap beer and swear its delicious. I just keep to the cocktails because I have enough hair on my chest already.

How do you know what they think? How do you know it's only reservations? Satan is probably one of the least, if not the least, Biblically based topic discussed. I can tell you that very few people know my views on the subject of Halloween.


Whether or not it's a huge difference may not be that significant. As I said, the belief may vary, and may change. It's not a black and white issue to where you can categorize crazy Christians from sane Christians based upon whether they believe Halloween is spiritually harmful or not. Just to clarify in case there's any misunderstanding, I'm not implying that Christians who don't think the holiday or celebration of Hallowen isn't spiritually harmful, believe that Satan doesn't exist, or is not harmful himself, or other Satanic related activities are not harmful. Or that they believe that someone who does think the holiday is harmful is crazy (although some might, depends on the individual). In other words, there's no real distinctive dividing line. When was the last time you discussed Halloween with one of the sane Christians you may have met?


Okay, if you say so.


So you're saying that all of the Christians you've viewed as sane do not believe Satan is a personality? And you suggested earlier I believe, that you don't view sane Christians as those who fall into any particular dogmatic grouping?


No, that's not what I'm indicating. In the on-going debate concerning the spiritual world, there are a number of people who are fairly certain the spiritual world doesn't exist. They may say they're undecided to some degree. But basically will use similar words like superstition, or claim Satan couldn't possibly be a personality (an "it"). The point made about the haunted houses (again in light of the Halloween theme of this thread), is that there's significant evidences worldwide for some who claim willing to investigate. They just never seem to want to go about it the right way. There are investigations by those who refer to themselves as skeptics. Some do it for TV entertainment. Some are maybe not skeptics. Either way, they always seem to go with a big TV crew, or a team of investigators (I guess for some reason they feel they need the back-up). I discussed it with someone else once, who suggested that this is the logical way. In essence, going in with a crew (recording, video-taping, etc.) was the best way to prove or disprove the existence of spirits in haunted houses. Well no, this is not logical. The logical thing to do, would be to have one of them, perhaps the leader, first stay over night alone in an authentic haunted house. Bring a tape recorder, video camera, etc. And then, the next day)s), if they survived, take in a team if necessary. The cases of those who didn't survive certain haunted houses (no evidence of murder) were alone.


I just used him as an example because he's an outspoken skeptic. The question can be aimed at any or all. Think about it, why not? Why not spend the night in an authentic haunted house, under complete protection from outside human interference? It may not answer the question as to whether or not the spirit world exists, but if one stayed overnight in a place like 50 Berkeley Square (referred to as the most haunted house in London), and nothing happened, it would make a very strong case against. My guess is that if Mr. Hawking were give the proposal, his schedule would be amazingly too busy (giving speeches at universities and all). Besides, if I were to send him an email, I think we both know what box it would go in.


Oh no doubt about it. There are many many hoaxes. In my opinion, the reality shows dealing with haunted houses are either hoaxes, or a lot of over-dramatizing (as is the case in all reality shows). It doesn't mean that all haunted house incidences are hoaxes.



Well no. The folks who run 50 Berkeley Square from the outside are probably upstanding Brits who like their morning cup of tea too much to want to end up in prison. The place is a tourist attraction. I think I even took a tour bus that went by there. I bet they would love to have a prominent skeptic (if not anyone) attempt to stay overnight. But where are they?

Halloween is just a holiday , it is only NOW that its starting to catch up around here in the UK. Not loads celebrate it, although many use it as a good excuse to party, get drunk and maybe have some office party sex. As for things like this article :

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... Devil.html




I think that just to say that parents should keep an eye on their kids during their trick or treating, they could have been a bit more professional, I.E not get the devil worshiping involved. One good thing about the UK, is that we don't get HUGE numbers of crazed fundamentalist Christians with ideas of purity balls or Jesus coming to nail the unbelievers into crosses. It is enough with the religious divide between Islam and Christianity to get another culprit involved I.E the devil. I am sure he has better things to do anyway :p