Japan Today: Japan News and Discussion

Hi gang, so here I am behind you all again. I thought I had a good post answering some questions, but must have pressed the wrong key or button.

So trotting back to Ziggy, I have ignored to much for both of us have riden m/cs. The 32 is a good round for self-defense (the Cdn Govt thought it would be used as a Saturday Night illegal h/. Unfortunately it was ALSO outlowed in Canada as the Govt is ALSO downing anything that looks like an ASSUALT rifle so even though modern hunting guns can be like a few yrs ago such as the Lee Enfield as used by the Cdns, Brits & so many others of the British commonwealth while so many other followed the Garand so we are talking about bolt action to old lever action rifles.

Right now having a hunting rifle like the original AR-15 can be much farther advanced in design & very reliable to accurate to not only 5.56mm but larger caliber as prefered for the hunter, but not in Canada.

I know that h/gun target shooter purchased a very costly German made 22 caliber semi-auto. While in the next day would be 32 Colt & so the slide that includes the bbl, extractor firing pin & such was removed to also the .22 smaller magazines & changed over to 32 only it is banned as of Bill C-68 so long ago. Though it was so costly to have a gun that could be 22 rim fire & changed over to a 32 center-fire for target.

Obviously a German made gun is much better then other makers such as Spain & such. Also what you have ziggy is an easy to pocket gun that is not that obvious to others & with the hammer being hidden then the gun will NOT snag on some clothing.

No matter how good one has become in hand to hand combat training if you are up against someone with a knife & do not know it, then good chance you will loose. Two summers ago a 16 yr old was in a park fight in Penticton, B.C., & downed a 21 yr old man because he had a knife. Even the RCMP know not to let anyone be closer to them then 7 yds for if they have a knife just a step or two & the blade can go in.

Now I believe it was yamakaji! that said they would not mind having a 45 only never tried one. They do not boot like a 44 Magnum or 41 Magnum & being in semi-auto form they are more comfortable. Mind you so is a 9mm while a 40S&W is progressing while the 10mm never did get on the band wagon. Said 9mm is snappy, but the 40S&W is really a turned down 10mm piece of brass with lighter load to lighter bullet tip. Latter is being used in some of the city police in Canada rather then the 9mm like RCMP.

Also someone mentioned the Belgium & I am sure that is the Belgium Browning P-35 or High Power that was costly, in 9mm, staggered magazing of 13 rounds ONLY anyone in Canada that has a h/gun mag of center-fire of over 10 shots is illegal. We had to make our 12 to 15 shot staggered mags only able to be loaded to max of 10 rounds. Of interest the Inglis sewing machine people were chruning out Browning P-35 we often called an Inglis 9mm though I have one & well modified by a gunsmith for me.

Hope I have cought up with some of you. Still I must say that belly gun (called Derringer while illegal as bbl size it to small) is a deadly safety gun to be used in last minute. One member had a two shot 45Colt long caliber (really a bruiser in caliber) & it bruised my hand as the grip was so small compared to the heavy caliber. Deadly for sure & also the prize gun to be carrying around at a poker game.

If I was allowed to carry a h/gun it would be my Colt Detective Special in 38 which is a six shot compared by the others being only five shot, Spl with a 2" snubbie bbl, but would try to find a gunsmith that would churn out a six shot for me in 6 shot 45ACP of my specs. Ah yes so there are some of my dreams.

Actually I think that might have been me talking about "Belgium" but it was to Autumn Sun about the P-90 (FN P90) that he seemed to like. I myself have never fired one but have handled one a few years ago (maybe longer ). In a way I agree with Zorro, the allure with a weapon, in this case one that has an exotic look, not all that sure the qualiity is much better then something of equal standing but more straight forward design.

I have some very basic questions for Mr Smythe but I guess pretty much anyone could answer them:

1) Why do some guns have a decimal, like Colt .45, while others are 9mm? Is this an imperial measurement vs metric thing? Or does one have to do with barrel diameter and another the size of the round? (I told you these questions were basic ) And what is bbl, Mr Smythe?

2) You can legally carry a handgun in my state as long as you have a permit, but I've decided against it. I'd probably end up hurting myself or an innocent bystander. Most likely, a criminal would soon have a shiny new gun courtesy of yours truly instead of having to rent one from the the street.

One thing I like about handguns, though, is the safety catch. Do shotguns even have a safety?

3) Let's say I had a pump-action shotgun locked up in the house that I never fired. How often should it be cleaned to make sure that it would be usable if I needed it?

Many thanks.

Smythe would be the better to answer but here are mine for what they are worth:



Yes, it is imperial vs. metric. They both measure the diameter of the barrell (bbl). The .45 is a little less than half an inch in diameter. A .50 cal round is exactly half an inch.

A 9mm is 9mm across. This is the approximate size of a .38. In fact, I have heard that you can put 9mm rounds into a .38 revolver in a pinch.



A dedicated safety depends on the style of the gun. For example, my Sig Sauer .45 doesn't have a dedicated safety because it is double action. (Double action means that you can either manually set the hammer to fire or simply pull the trigger. Single action means tha you HAVE to manually set the hammer.) So, in double action mode you would HAVE to want to pull the trigger. It would be very hard to pull it accidentally.

A safety usually comes into play when a gun is set and ready to be fired. At this point the trigger requires very little pressure...thus a safety.

In the case of shotguns you will have three main styles; Multiple barrell, Pump Action and Auto. The multiple barrell usually won't have a safety because the hammers have to be set manually. The Pump and Auto will.

The difference between a pump and an auto is in how the new round is chambered after the first round is fired. A pump has to be "pumped" while an automatic is...well...automatic. (The auto uses the energy from the explosion to chamber a new round.)

In your case, I would suggest a pump action. To be safe, you could keep the shells in the gun but not have one in the chamber. If needed, the gun can be "pumped." This is beneficial in another way. The sound of that pump action will scare the living **** out of a would be burgler. They won't hear that sound if you already have a round in the chamber. Another benefit is that if you wait to chamber the round until you need it, you don't have to worry about which way the safety should be switched. I know this sounds stupid but you would be surprised what can happen when the adrenalin is flowing.



If you don't fire it, and it is locked up, I would say maybe once a year. It really won't get dirty.

Oh...one more thing. A pump action shotgun, lever action rifle or a revolver don't get as dirty as an automatic. This is because the gas from the explosion doesn't have as much chance to foul the action. For this reason they are (in my mind) more reliable.

Thank you for that very comprehensive answer, Ziggy. Much appreciated. One note:



Doesn't sound stupid at all. That's why I'm so careful and full of questions. I'm fearful of guns* and while I like the way they look, I think this is the reason shooting them holds no allure for me, personally.

*I'm not going to bother to put this in Confession Booth, but I just accidentally typed "I'm fearful of" + {my wife's name} plus apostrophe-s. instead of "guns". This might be my first ever typed Freudian slip!

However, this doesn't sit well in a thread about firearms for protection either.

Let me amend my statement about multiple barrell shotguns: Some of the newer ones may in fact have safeties.

Remember - Don't be afraid; be in control. Know which end is the dangerous end and don't point it at anything you don't want destroyed.

I would suggest taking a class. Around here they have classes for about $50.00 and you can rent your choice of pistol. At least you can see what you are getting into.

Also - if you decide to go with a shotgun, you don't have to spend a fortune. My guess is less than $250 will do.


The very best thing about guns? When gunsmiths retire they sell their beautiful burled walnut. Occasionally I can actually buy it and make stuff. (Remember the jewelry box - that was gunstock walnut.)


Move fast, Stay low, Keep your eye on the front site - Bruce Cockburn

That's usually the problem, being fearful of them, respect them and they keep you out of trouble. Not by useing them but knowing what "not" to do with them.

Zig, Stephen:

I probably will take classes if I make a purchase, if only to get used to the noise. My friend has offered to let me shoot his, but I'm not sure if I'm going to take him up on it. I was always the dork who threw the bat in baseball. (I was an otherwise good batter).
And Ziggy, don't worry about mrs Fox. I'm fairly sure she can stare mid-air ammo down, sending it harmlessly to the floor.
I remember when we were on our honeymoon in Italy, a scary guy asked us for cigarettes at about 4 am. I was nervous, but she turned to me and said, "If necessary, we can kick his ass". She looks so elegant; one would not expect those words to come out of her.

After a mishap in her family, she wanted to buy a Desert Eagle, but even I know they are ungainly and better suited for Hollywood. I'll repeat a little something about firearms in Taiwan that even Smythe probably doesn't know, some other time.
I think she should have a Beretta.

Thankfully ziggy got in & answered some of the questions, believe me it is not hard to find yourself behind in time if you are not on the board accidently or whatever.

Yes in actual fact the 45ACP is in metric an 11 meter though the Colt 1911 of 1909 to become established by the Americans was called a 45ACP & ACP standing for Autmatic Colt Pistol. Like right now is the bit of a mix-up of calling the NATO rifle round being light a 5.56mm to what others call it a 223 take in the 7.62mm to be called the 380 basically in North America. Mind you anyone producing the semi-auto h/gun to rifle WELL they do not put their name down for the caliber make. Mind you Glock did with AGP that simply failed to the rest of the world.

Also a lot of firms are working on semi-auto rifles in 6.8mm which was originally taken from a Remington 30 cal of some yrs ago & so modified. Definately more accurate at a greater distance to hitting power such as material.

Safety yes on a pump shotgun, but as ziggy pointed out, a the start, the very pumping of the pump action shotgun is enough to scare a criminal right then & there.

Funny think is through several of my 9mm h/guns I have shot anything from claimed perfection of .355", to 356" to 357". My CZ-75 is rifled a bit to large (prime aim being t throw lead in the distance demanded, but really to loose so now all buy 356" if they have a CZ-75, but can guarantee my Browning P-35 High Power does well with the slight oversize). All grouping around the same to also in many forms/shapes like Round Nose to Triconical, to also Semi-Wadcutter. So if you see the so called TV crime specialist not a bullet in a wall & takes it out saying "This has to be a 357 Mag" for in fact it could be a 38Spl, to 357Magnum or shot from a 9mm h/gun as so mentioned above. The 38 Special with lengthened brass, for safety of not putting a overweight load in a 38 Spl like a 357 Magnum that extra length of brass stopped one from loading it by mistake. They BOTH use the same bullet tip in diameter to weight & you can see the 9mm can be of several variations in diameter tip to even shape.

To be honest with you if we Cdns had the right to use a f/arm for home or family safety I would load up my Colt Detective Special with its 2" snubbie bbl as the gun carries six rounds to most others only being 5 shots, AND it is comportrable to shoot with accuracy.

Believe me the above tells you why reloading your own loads is not only a saving, but a challenge to also INTERESTING.

Opps sorry for me putting down "bbl" being he short for BARREL to us target shooters. Good thing you are not reading a post I have to fellow m/c riders for I often use words so often that we used in our m/c shops or amongst each others especially so many were British as were all my instruction books in the late 40s were written by British m/c makers to those that made power/plants to front forks carburettors & such. It is sort of another lingo for f/arms to reloading is the same also remember I am a Cdn so spelling can be a bit different to that of Americans or anyone that has learned how to speak not "American", but English by Americans.

I think ziggy to some others & myself have sort of cleared up some of the questions, but have to admit that I have throwen some others at you. such as SWC, RN, or such means Semi-Wadcutter, to Round Nose & of course there is TC that means Triconical for the first 9mm was designed by Luger & he had the bullet tip to a point, but the Genevia Convention said that was not legal as with any ammo in a War. True he put it down to a RN, but after a while some ahead of me made an almost tip point though with a bit of a nipping off the looks of the bullet tip & so the Triconical was born.

Note foxtrot that the Americans have adopted the Baretta 92F as their side-arm of 9mm instead of the Colt 45ACP. Mind you some Americans want a bit more punch & something that will stand up better in Afgan sort of terrain. Also many are asking something closer to the 6.8mm instead of the 5.56mm along with snipers wanting some more up to date equipment when using their 7.62mm.

The 7.62mm is ideal, but the need more modernized rifles & special equipment PLUS the USA has decided scratch the 50 caliber sniper rifle to a 400 Winchester Maginum.

I thought this was for NATO compliance?



Say it ain't so!

Thanks, Smythe! I guess I just have to do some studying.


I think I remember reading about a "50 cal" in 'Generation Kill'. But that was most definitely an automatic assault weapon and not a sniper rifle.

Loading is fun. The problem with loading in the States is that you would never use those rounds for protection. A lawyer would eat you alive if you ever shot someone with a round you loaded yourself.


There used to be the Barrett Arms factory in Tennessee. They made the big .50.

Sorry Deviations, but it was the Americans that were looking for the replacement of the 38Spl by so many pilots, to 10mm to 45ACP to something that would be used by ALL of the American armed forces. So it was finally the Baretta 92F 9mm that won out especially as most of the work was done in the USA.

You will find some specialists like some of the American SWAT team still use a 45ACP in a h/gun to some of the Marines to some Special Forces.

True the 50 caliber semi-auto rifle was sometimes used by some of the better shooters. A Cdn used the same gun to obtain a hit of a truck driver with the same ONLY in his case it was American ammo that was better to be used then Cdn--yes at the time it was the longest shot on record.

One of the draw-backs is the weight of the gun along with ammo. So snipers prefer to use the old M-14 (first introduced at the start of the "Nam battle--only if in FULL AUTO it could send a lot of smaller people hitting the ground & so the M-16 of 5.56 came into use) semi-auto of 7.62mm loads. They have been looking forward to better built guns as the pity of it is so often snipers are throwen in with the regular infantry when in fact they take their kills in a different way & so often their immediate commanding officers do not know what to do with them.

So obviously the change to the 400 Winchester ammo to be used in future sniper rifles, but how long they will wait we do not know.

I saw a photo of an American training Iraq to be police officers to same when he moved over to Afghanistan. Also noted his h/gun was in a jumpers holster, not down by his pant leg) & was not the 9mm. Seems he had someone make up a proper Browning action 45ACP like I have (which is being done so often by the bettery gunsmiths for IPSC or other target shooters) & his terrain looked rather exposed to the hills. He mentioned that instead of the 5.56mm he wished he had a M-14. Proof that he wanted something better when it came to protect himself. We are both m/c riders so I draw a tiny bit of info from him every once in a while.

I have heard that from some of my still in service friends that they would still rather have some of the older equipment (side arms and such) then they do have today, probably just some old foggys like myself.

Good information, guys. I'm learning a lot.
My friend of a friend always recommended a pump-action shotgun as well. He did not give a reason, but that's what I wanted anyway, because of the sound.

Edit: I think I found it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcscbPQ5ut8
"unload" (duh ) and "eject". and there is a safety on his.
"shell release" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrBVZyRca1c

Sorry for this very basic follow up question: let's say you rack a round into the chamber of -- I'll use Smythespeak here -- a p/action s/gun, and the would-be intruder leaves. What does it look like when you then empty the chamber instead of firing? I mean, I can picture the rounds falling out of the opening of an over under shotgun* But, I have no idea about the pump action.

And, what is it called when you empty the chamber without firing? How do you say that?

*Winchester Select is handcrafted in Belgium?

Since I answered my own question above, here's a different one that I won't bother to look up: what is gauge?
It seems like the lower the number, the bigger the gun because of that scary eight gauge in the film 'Appaloosa.'
But, what do those numbers really mean? 10-gauge, 12-gauge, etc.

I don't know why but you are correct. The larger the number the smaller the size.

If it makes you feel better it works the same way with a lot of things; most notably wire.

If you really want to dig into a can of worms, dig into rifle calibers. Ex. A 30.30 and a 30.06 (often called thirty ought six) are both 30 caliber and are very different bullets.

A .22 rimfire and a .220 swift are VERY different. (The .220 swift is a BRUTAL round.)

If I had a lot of money, (fat chance) I would like to try target shooting with one of these: .204 Ruger

Thanks for that, Zig.

Say, isn't this cute?
http://www.defensereview.com/boberg-xr9 ... lications/
What a nice looking subcompact.

Sorry Gang, but for some reason or another I cannot get onto page 3 or whatever is the next. I did a few minutes ago, to note an error I made. Unfortunately pressed off the sight & in getting back on I was stuck with pages 1 & two.

So YES there is a safety on all pump shotguns. After all all I have a WWI Trench Fighting one that I use to use around the farm plus a more modern shotgun & YES there is a little safety button just down by the trigger. Thing is i really do not trush said safeties so a gun of any type unloaded & breech open, bolt pulled fully back, to folded open is to me what I look upon as SAFETY.

You see when runing the gun range when I call out "Are guns in safety" that means they are totallay safe to my outlook before I will can "Guns are safe, range closed so let us check out targets". Even a revolver cylinder open on its side of the gun, but with live loads IS NOT accepted as SAFETY.

Good gosh I knocked myself out AGAIN especially when I went to look at the self-defense semi-h/gun foxtrot had for use to look at. They are also avaliable in 40S&W to 45ACP as some prefer.

Yes any of them would be good "belly guns" but not allowed in Cdn for anything below 105mm it illlegal so all of us buy 5" to 6" bbled guns & "bbled" means BARRELED.

I wouldl not trust a pump shotgun that had the none fired shotshells pumped out. With my old WWI Winchester 12 gauge shotgun. I was empting it in my bedroom, as it was darn cold in the late Autumn.

BANG was the blast along with shot rolling back towards me as the light load had hit the thick plywood at the last. Mind you it also tore through my sort of winter warm sleeping blankets of a comforter, the HBC wool blanket to a lighter wool blanket, the two flannel sheets, to the top of my mattress to come out the side a bit lower to ALSO hit a Maple wood leg of my bed then the 3/4" plywood wall.

So I had to clean up the mess including sewing said blankets to making sure the two flannel sheets were at the head of the bed, for being at the bottom of the bed one of my toes would get cought in it.

No i did not repair the leg of the bed & now living here that part of the bed is now exposed to my eyes & is always a "sore spot" of what can go wrong!!!!!!!!

Thanks for ziggy digging in & helping in my errors to questions I did not answer. So in reality I am NOT one of perfection. I will tend to make mistakes in typing to also the bit about the shotgun & empting the un-used loads. I have done that hundreds of time, but never had the above happen PREVIOUSLY or since.

Actually shotguns are basically used in Trap shooting & the rules in SAFETY are just as extreme as mine in h/guns. Most have semi-auto shotgun or over-under bbls so when in safety form one sees them standing with the shotgun broken open PRIME safety feature.

In fact we apparently had a Guest shooting down in the rifle range. He was a bit touchy about safety, due to some other ranges he had shot on that were far from being safety concious as ours is. He spoke high words about our range to also his intention of taking the Possession Only card to a Cdn Firearms Safety Course to application for Possession & Acquisition License of rifles, shotgun, to h/guns. The prior one was easy to obtain for POL only stood for Possession Only meaning he had no intent to sell or buy what he had.

Yes it was the RANGE OFFICERS that cought his attention along with command of the range from start to finish plus SAFETY that was lacking on other ranges. For he was also a normal hunter every years if he could get the time.

Also once he obtains his PAL then he will join our Club to try his hand a Trap shooting to also h/gun shooting as an advanced form of shooting sport be it Trap or h/gun.

You are right tnstaafl for note so many Marines still stick to the semi-auto 45ACP be it modified for them or custom made in some cases. Even the SWAT team on Los Angles use a 45ACP of the Browning action, made by a good commercial firm in the USA & not the Beretta 9mm or any make of 9mm.

For some 30 yrs the provided their modified Colt 45 semi-auto guns till two yrs ago the Police Dept supplied them with a semi-auto 45ACP they liked. Mind you some yrs prior to that they ALSO supplied their own modified sniper rifles till the Police Dept supplied them with a rifle to their liking.

Of interest over in Afghanistan, the novelty of spreading lead from a fully auto rifle or machine gun was GREAT. Then some of the Afghanistans remembered their grandfather was such a keen shooter & always came home with a kill & food for the family, which was a 303 Lee Enfield. Maze of them can be found in other countries, but people in Afghan are also gun builders so they have produced the same. That is sort of a downfall to Americans, Cdns, or whoever is their enemie for that becomes their snipper rifle instead of the few Russian made ones.

This world of f/arms can be very interesting & to many in Germany have gathered a lot of antiques to interesting large bore target rifles amongst the other guns in collectin. Also for some years they have been very keen on purchasing a 45ACP of Browning action by one of the pistolsmiths in North America & yes my pistolsmith chap came out when competitin against some of the best of the Americans. Unfortunately for me he has moved back to Czech, his home land, & I am left without such a good pistolsmith.

This looks interesting.
The American Rifle: A Biography

It certainly does. Although footnotes are a pain in the butt with a Google book. In fact, footnotes at the end of a chapter vice bottom of the page are a pain in the butt.

I saw the paperback in the store the other day. I might pick it up when I'm done with my current stuff.

Believe me books like that are most interesting to read. I have a costly one or two called Encyclopedia of Pistols & H/guns to another being The Illustratated Encyclopedia of Handguns though chases pistols & revolvers along with less expensive ones like Trouble Shooting your h/gun & others.

Obviously I have this interest in h/guns for besides some monthly magazines arriving about f/arms in general I do have a bit of reading material & YES have to admit I am about a year behind on the monthlies.

I use to do the same when we changed a bicycle shop from bicycle shop to British m/cs as well so monthly articles arrived from England that I simply soaked in, to other manuals, to write-ups like on the power-plant said firm made to gearboxes, just two in the time, to Carbs to more info from some of the m/c makers. All being from England it is not surprising that some of my spelling was different to that of Americans to even what I called thing like to me a mudguard on a m/c was correct & not the American way of saying Fender for a fender is for a car/truck in my mind.

The interesting think in many was some of the lovely pen & ink sketchings of said parts all spread apart & so easy to understand.

Instead of going through my limited memory about your semi-auto Ziggy, I could settle down to the most costly books then start to study & come up with the best of info on it, but then you know it is a well built semi-auto that will not snag in the pocket, to caliber & all.

Reminds me of a story of the American bandits of the early 20th century. I think it was the gang of Pretty Boy Floyd. The cops would go after them with Tommy guns. The gang would always be in a spot with plenty of open land around and shoot the cops down with rifles before the cops ever got in any sort of range for a sub machine gun to be of any use.

It took the cops a while to figure out that they had to ambush them and then to get the information to do it.

edit-----------------

Maybe I remembered incorrectly. Maybe it was Bonnie and Clyde and it actually may have been them using the BAR against the cops, not just simple rifles.

The History Channel also had a great series on the history of the gun. I haven't had any luck finding it on Hulu yet.



I was more interested in the personal history of this particular pistol. I was thinking that the original owner would have had to be a rich person to afford it. However, since it was made in '28, it could have been sold before the market crash of '29. The history of the "Roaring 20s" makes me wonder who originally bought it - or even if they were expensive compared to an ordinaly colt revolver.

Might have been a BAR, has plenty of stopping power (still used them up to and including Viet Nam) and not something the feds used that much. Interesting enough the tommy gun could be bought for a couple hundred bucks and they would throw in two drums of ammo through the mail from the makers. But the crooks of the time would just knock over a National Guard Armory.